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Chomsky pour les nuls

Noam Chomsky était samedi dernier à Paris, où il a donné une conférence au théâtre de la Mutualité. Condensé de sa pensée, son exposé m'a semblé décevant au regard de ce qu'il est capable de donner habituellement. La réponse aux questions du public a donné lieu à des propos plus précis et plus fins : je pense qu'il aurait été préférable de lui proposer un thème plutôt qu'un large panoramique. Son exposé, le veille, au Collège de France, était d'ailleurs de bien meilleure qualité. Vous pouvez l'écouter ici en intégralité :


Pour ceux qui découvriraient celui que le New-York Times qualifie de "sans doute le plus grand intellectuel vivant aujourd'hui"



je vous propose une interview de Noam Chomsky par Daniel Mermet et un article de Jean Bricmont. Ce petit programme peut à mon avis constituer une bonne entrée en matière...

1. Article de Jean Bricmont (avril 2001)

Le New York Times, qui n’aime guère Noam Chomsky (c’est réciproque), admet néanmoins qu’il compte au nombre des plus grands intellectuels vivants. En dehors des départements de linguistique, et des colonnes du Monde diplomatique, il reste néanmoins ignoré en France.

Quand son nom est évoqué, c’est trop souvent pour y associer ceux de Robert Faurisson ou de Pol Pot. Chomsky serait l’archétype de l’intellectuel passant son temps à minimiser ou à nier divers génocides dont l’évocation risquerait de servir l’impérialisme occidental. Il n’a d’ailleurs trouvé qu’un éditeur marginal, Spartacus, pour publier en 1984 ses Réponses inédites à mes détracteurs parisiens, compilation de lettres et d’un entretien, non publiés ou de façon tronquée et adressés à des journaux comme Le Monde, Le Matin de Paris, Les Nouvelles littéraires, pour répondre, entre autres, à des attaques de Jacques Attali et de Bernard-Henri Lévy. D’où l’importance de la publication récente de certains de ses textes (1).

Pendant la guerre du Vietnam, les écrits de Chomsky jouissaient d’une certaine audience en France. Mais, déjà à l’époque, un malentendu implicite commençait à poindre. Dans les mouvements anti-impérialistes dominait une mentalité de « prise de parti ». Il fallait choisir son camp : pour l’Occident ou pour les révolutions du tiers-monde. Une telle attitude est étrangère à Chomsky, rationaliste au sens classique du terme. Non pas qu’il se place « au-dessus de la mêlée » - rares sont les intellectuels plus engagés que lui -, mais son engagement est fondé sur des principes comme la vérité et la justice, et non sur le soutien à un camp historique et social, quel qu’il soit.

Son opposition à la guerre ne découlait pas du pronostic que la révolution vietnamienne offrirait un avenir radieux aux peuples d’Indochine, mais de l’observation que l’agression américaine serait catastrophique parce que, loin d’être motivée par la défense de la démocratie, elle visait à empêcher toute forme de développement indépendant en Indochine et dans le tiers-monde.

Dénoncer l’idéologie de l’Occident

Rigoureux, les écrits de Chomsky offraient aux opposants à la guerre du Vietnam des outils intellectuels précieux ; la différence d’optique entre lui et ses partisans en France pouvait alors passer pour secondaire. La contre-offensive politique et idéologique se déclencha quand, à partir de 1975, des boat people se mirent à fuir le Vietnam et, plus encore, lorsque les Khmers rouges commirent leurs massacres. Un mécanisme de culpabilisation de ceux qui s’étaient opposés à la guerre occidentale, et plus généralement à l’impérialisme, permit de leur imputer la responsabilité de ces événements. Mais, comme le fait remarquer Chomsky, reprocher à des adversaires de l’invasion de l’Afghanistan par l’URSS en 1979 les atrocités commises par les rebelles afghans depuis le retrait des troupes soviétiques ne serait pas moins absurde : s’opposant à l’invasion, ils avaient voulu empêcher une catastrophe dont portent la responsabilité ceux qui l’ont décidée, pas leurs adversaires. Presque banal, un argument de ce type est quasiment inaudible dans le camp occidental.

En France, la mentalité de camp avait conduit nombre d’opposants aux guerres coloniales à se bercer d’illusions sur la possibilité de « lendemains qui chantent » dans les sociétés décolonisées. Cela a rendu la culpabilisation d’autant plus efficace que la fin de la guerre du Vietnam coïncida avec le grand tournant de l’intelligentsia française, qui allait amener celle-ci à s’écarter du marxisme et des révolutions du tiers-monde et, peu à peu, avec le mouvement des « nouveaux philosophes », à adopter des positions favorables à la politique occidentale au Tchad et au Nicaragua. Une bonne partie des intellectuels français, surtout ceux de la « génération 68 », d’abord passive dans la lutte contre les euro-missiles (1982-1983), devint franchement belliciste au moment de la guerre du Golfe puis lors de l’intervention de l’OTAN au Kosovo.

N’ayant jamais eu d’illusions à perdre, Noam Chomsky n’avait aucun combat à renier. Il demeura donc à la pointe de la lutte contre les interventions militaires et les embargos qui, de l’Amérique centrale à l’Irak, ont provoqué des centaines de milliers de victimes. Mais pour ceux qui avaient opéré le grand tournant, Chomsky devenait un anachronisme bizarre et dangereux. Comment pouvait-il ne pas avoir compris que le bon camp était devenu celui de l’Occident, des « droits de l’homme » ? Et le mauvais, celui de la « barbarie à visage humain », pays socialistes et dictatures post-coloniales mêlées ?

L’étude de sa démarche intellectuelle permet de répondre. Une bonne partie de l’œuvre de Chomsky est consacrée à l’analyse des mécanismes idéologiques des sociétés occidentales. Quand un historien étudie l’Empire romain, il essaie de relier les actions des dirigeants de l’époque à leurs intérêts économiques et politiques, ou du moins à la perception que ceux-ci en ont. Au lieu de s’en tenir aux seules intentions avouées des dirigeants, l’historien met au jour la structure « cachée » de la société (relations de pouvoir, contraintes institutionnelles) pour décrypter le discours officiel. Cette démarche est tellement naturelle qu’il ne faut même pas la justifier. On l’applique à des sociétés comme l’Union soviétique hier, la Chine et l’Iran aujourd’hui. Nul expert sérieux n’expliquerait le comportement des dirigeants de ces pays en privilégiant les motivations que ceux-ci mettent en avant pour justifier leurs actions.

Cette attitude méthodologique générale change du tout au tout quand il s’agit des sociétés occidentales. Il devient alors quasi obligatoire d’accepter que les intentions proclamées de leurs gouvernants constituent les ressorts de leurs actions. On peut douter de leur capacité à atteindre leurs objectifs, de leur intelligence. Mais mettre en cause la pureté de leurs motivations, chercher à expliquer leurs actions par les contraintes que des acteurs plus puissants feraient peser sur eux revient souvent à s’exclure du discours « respectable ».

Ainsi, lors de la guerre du Kosovo, on a pu discuter des moyens et de la stratégie mis en œuvre par l’OTAN, mais pas l’idée qu’il s’agissait d’une guerre humanitaire. On a critiqué les moyens utilisés par les Etats-Unis en Amérique centrale dans les années 1980, mais rarement douté qu’ils voulaient protéger ces pays de la menace soviétique ou cubaine. L’argument qui motive ce curieux dualisme dans l’approche des phénomènes politiques est que nos sociétés sont « réellement différentes », à la fois des sociétés passées et des pays comme l’URSS ou la Chine, parce que nos gouvernements seraient « réellement » soucieux des droits de la personne ou de la démocratie.

Mais le fait que les principes démocratiques soient souvent mieux respectés « chez nous » qu’ailleurs n’empêche nullement d’évaluer empiriquement la thèse de la singularité occidentale. On peut y parvenir en comparant deux tragédies (guerre, famine, attentat, etc.) plus ou moins semblables et en observant la réaction de nos gouvernements et de nos médias. Or, quand la responsabilité de ces situations est imputable à nos ennemis, l’indignation est générale et la présentation dépourvue de la moindre indulgence. En revanche, si la responsabilité des gouvernements occidentaux ou de leurs alliés est engagée, les horreurs sont souvent minimisées. Pourtant, si les actions de nos gouvernements étaient réellement motivées par les intentions altruistes qu’ils proclament, ils devraient d’abord agir sur les tragédies dont ils sont responsables, au lieu de donner la priorité à celles qu’ils peuvent attribuer à leurs ennemis. Constater que c’est presque toujours l’inverse qui se produit oblige à retenir l’accusation d’hypocrisie. Une bonne partie de l’œuvre de Chomsky est consacrée à des comparaisons de ce genre (2).

Dans le cas de l’Indochine et du Cambodge en particulier, les écrits de Chomsky, souvent présentés comme une « défense de Pol Pot », ont cherché à comparer les réactions des gouvernements et des médias occidentaux face à deux atrocités presque simultanées : les massacres commis par les Khmers rouges au Cambodge et ceux des Indonésiens au moment de l’invasion du Timor-Oriental.

Concernant le Cambodge, l’indignation fut vive - autant qu’hypocrite (3). En revanche, au moment de l’action militaire indonésienne, les médias et les intellectuels « médiatiques » observèrent un silence presque complet alors même que les Etats-Unis et leurs alliés, dont la France, livraient à l’Indonésie des armes en sachant qu’elles seraient utilisées au Timor (4). Dresser la longue liste des non-indignations de ce type obligerait à revenir sur la Turquie et les Kurdes, Israël et les Palestiniens, sans oublier l’Irak, où, au nom du droit international, on laisse des centaines de milliers de personnes mourir à petit feu.

En se livrant à ce genre de comparaisons, Chomsky a pris le contre-pied de la mentalité de parti particulièrement accusée depuis le grand tournant : puisque le Bien (l’Occident et ses alliés) affrontait le Mal (les nationalismes du tiers-monde et les pays dits socialistes), l’analogie fut interdite. Or Chomsky fit pire. Refusant la duplicité qu’il reproche à nos gouvernants et à nos médias, il a toujours estimé qu’il devait d’abord dénoncer les crimes des gouvernements sur lesquels il pouvait espérer agir, c’est-à-dire les nôtres.

Même s’il n’entrait dans sa démarche nulle illusion sur les régimes « révolutionnaires » ou absolution des crimes commis par les « autres », il était presque inévitable que ceux-là mêmes qui avaient entretenu de telles illusions et accepté de telles absolutions l’accuseraient de tomber dans leurs travers. On peut comprendre la réaction d’une partie de l’intelligentsia française, soucieuse de brûler ce qu’elle a adoré et d’adorer ce qu’elle a brûlé et naturellement désireuse de se venger sur le dos des autres des erreurs qu’elle a autrefois commises. Parfois, Chomsky en a été plus agacé qu’amusé.

Il faut à présent aborder l’« affaire Faurisson », qui alimente les attaques françaises les plus virulentes contre Chomsky. Professeur de littérature à l’université de Lyon, Robert Faurisson fut suspendu de ses fonctions à la fin des années 1970 et poursuivi parce qu’il avait, entre autres, nié l’existence des chambres à gaz pendant la seconde guerre mondiale. Une pétition pour défendre sa liberté d’expression fut signée par plus de cinq cents personnes, dont Chomsky. Pour répondre aux réactions violentes que suscita son geste, Chomsky rédigea alors un petit texte dans lequel il expliquait que reconnaître à une personne le droit d’exprimer ses opinions ne revenait nullement à les partager. Elémentaire aux Etats-Unis, cette distinction parut difficilement compréhensible en France.

Mais Chomsky commit une erreur, la seule dans cette affaire. Il donna son texte à un ami d’alors, Serge Thion, en lui permettant de l’utiliser à sa guise. Or Thion le fit paraître, comme « avis », au début du mémoire publié pour défendre Faurisson. Chomsky n’a cessé de rappeler qu’il n’avait jamais eu l’intention de voir publier son texte à cet endroit et qu’il chercha, mais trop tard, à l’empêcher (5).

Condamner Chomsky dans cette affaire impose, au minimum, de dire ce que l’on réprouve exactement : une erreur tactique ou le principe même de la défense inconditionnelle de la liberté d’expression ? Dans le second cas, il faut alors indiquer que la France ne possède pas, en matière d’expression d’opinions, la tradition libertaire des Etats-Unis. Là-bas, la position de Chomsky ne choque presque personne. Parfois comparée à la Ligue des droits de l’homme, l’American Civil Liberties Union, dans laquelle militent de nombreux antifascistes, porte ainsi plainte devant les tribunaux si on interdit au Ku Klux Klan ou à des groupuscules nazis de manifester, fût-ce en uniforme, dans des quartiers à majorité noire ou juive (6). Le débat à ce propos oppose donc deux traditions politiques différentes, l’une dominante en France, l’autre aux Etats-Unis, et pas un Noam Chomsky, représentant d’une ultra-gauche dévoyée, face à une France républicaine.

Dans un monde où des cohortes d’intellectuels disciplinés et de médias asservis servent de prêtrise séculière aux puissants, lire Chomsky représente un acte d’autodéfense. Il peut permettre d’éviter les fausses évidences et les indignations sélectives du discours dominant. Mais il enseigne aussi que, pour changer le monde, on doit le comprendre de façon objective et qu’il y a une grande différence entre romantisme révolutionnaire - lequel fait parfois plus de tort que de bien - et critique sociale simultanément radicale et rationnelle. Après des années de désespoir et de résignation, une contestation globale du système capitaliste semble renaître. Elle ne peut que tirer avantage de la combinaison de lucidité, de courage et d’optimisme qui marque l’œuvre et la vie de Noam Chomsky.

2. Interview par Daniel Mermet (août 2007)

Commençons par la question des médias. En France, en mai 2005, lors du référendum sur le traité de Constitution européenne, la plupart des organes de presse étaient partisans du « oui », et cependant 55 % des Français ont voté « non ». La puissance de manipulation des médias ne semble donc pas absolue. Ce vote des citoyens représentait-il aussi un « non » aux médias ?

Le travail sur la manipulation médiatique ou la fabrique du consentement fait par Edward Herman et moi n’aborde pas la question des effets des médias sur le public (1). C’est un sujet compliqué, mais les quelques recherches en profondeur menées sur ce thème suggèrent que, en réalité, l’influence des médias est plus importante sur la fraction de la population la plus éduquée. La masse de l’opinion publique paraît, elle, moins tributaire du discours des médias.

Prenons, par exemple, l’éventualité d’une guerre contre l’Iran : 75 % des Américains estiment que les Etats-Unis devraient mettre un terme à leurs menaces militaires et privilégier la recherche d’un accord par voie diplomatique. Des enquêtes conduites par des instituts occidentaux suggèrent que l’opinion publique iranienne et celle des Etats-Unis convergent aussi sur certains aspects de la question nucléaire : l’écrasante majorité de la population des deux pays estime que la zone s’étendant d’Israël à l’Iran devrait être entièrement débarrassée des engins de guerre nucléaires, y compris ceux que détiennent les troupes américaines de la région. Or, pour trouver ce genre d’information dans les médias, il faut chercher longtemps.

Quant aux principaux partis politiques des deux pays, aucun ne défend ce point de vue. Si l’Iran et les Etats-Unis étaient d’authentiques démocraties à l’intérieur desquelles la majorité détermine réellement les politiques publiques, le différend actuel sur le nucléaire serait sans doute déjà résolu. Il y a d’autres cas de ce genre.

Concernant, par exemple, le budget fédéral des Etats-Unis, la plupart des Américains souhaitent une réduction des dépenses militaires et une augmentation, en revanche, des dépenses sociales, des crédits versés aux Nations unies, de l’aide économique et humanitaire internationale, et enfin l’annulation des baisses d’impôts décidées par le président George W. Bush en faveur des contribuables les plus riches.

Sur tous ces sujets-là, la politique de la Maison Blanche est totalement contraire aux réclamations de l’opinion publique. Mais les enquêtes qui relèvent cette opposition publique persistante sont rarement publiées dans les médias. Si bien que les citoyens sont non seulement écartés des centres de décision politique, mais également tenus dans l’ignorance de l’état réel de cette même opinion publique.

Il existe une inquiétude internationale relative à l’abyssal « double déficit » des Etats-Unis : le déficit commercial et le déficit budgétaire. Or ceux-ci n’existent qu’en relation étroite avec un troisième déficit : le déficit démocratique, qui ne cesse de se creuser, non seulement aux Etats-Unis, mais plus généralement dans l’ensemble du monde occidental.

Chaque fois qu’on demande à un journaliste vedette ou à un présentateur d’un grand journal télévisé s’il subit des pressions, s’il lui arrive d’être censuré, il réplique qu’il est entièrement libre, qu’il exprime ses propres convictions. Comment fonctionne le contrôle de la pensée dans une société démocratique ? En ce qui concerne les dictatures, nous le savons.

Quand des journalistes sont mis en cause, ils répondent aussitôt : « Nul n’a fait pression sur moi, j’écris ce que je veux. » C’est vrai. Seulement, s’ils prenaient des positions contraires à la norme dominante, ils n’écriraient plus leurs éditoriaux. La règle n’est pas absolue, bien sûr ; il m’arrive moi-même d’être publié dans la presse américaine, les Etats-Unis ne sont pas un pays totalitaire non plus. Mais quiconque ne satisfait pas certaines exigences minimales n’a aucune chance d’être pressenti pour accéder au rang de commentateur ayant pignon sur rue.

C’est d’ailleurs l’une des grandes différences entre le système de propagande d’un Etat totalitaire et la manière de procéder dans des sociétés démocratiques. En exagérant un peu, dans les pays totalitaires, l’Etat décide de la ligne à suivre et chacun doit ensuite s’y conformer. Les sociétés démocratiques opèrent autrement. La « ligne » n’est jamais énoncée comme telle, elle est sous-entendue. On procède, en quelque sorte, au « lavage de cerveaux en liberté ». Et même les débats « passionnés » dans les grands médias se situent dans le cadre des paramètres implicites consentis, lesquels tiennent en lisière nombre de points de vue contraires.

Le système de contrôle des sociétés démocratiques est fort efficace ; il instille la ligne directrice comme l’air qu’on respire. On ne s’en aperçoit pas, et on s’imagine parfois être en présence d’un débat particulièrement vigoureux. Au fond, c’est infiniment plus performant que les systèmes totalitaires.

Prenons, par exemple, le cas de l’Allemagne au début des années 1930. On a eu tendance à l’oublier, mais c’était alors le pays le plus avancé d’Europe, à la pointe en matière d’art, de sciences, de techniques, de littérature, de philosophie. Puis, en très peu de temps, un retournement complet est intervenu, et l’Allemagne est devenue l’Etat le plus meurtrier, le plus barbare de l’histoire humaine.

Tout cela s’est accompli en distillant de la peur : celle des bolcheviks, des Juifs, des Américains, des Tziganes, bref, de tous ceux qui, selon les nazis, menaçaient le cœur de la civilisation européenne, c’est-à-dire les « héritiers directs de la civilisation grecque ». En tout cas, c’est ce qu’écrivait le philosophe Martin Heidegger en 1935. Or la plupart des médias allemands qui ont bombardé la population avec des messages de ce genre ont repris les techniques de marketing mises au point... par des publicitaires américains.

N’oublions pas comment s’impose toujours une idéologie. Pour dominer, la violence ne suffit pas, il faut une justification d’une autre nature. Ainsi, lorsqu’une personne exerce son pouvoir sur une autre – que ce soit un dictateur, un colon, un bureaucrate, un mari ou un patron –, elle a besoin d’une idéologie justificatrice, toujours la même : cette domination est faite « pour le bien » du dominé. En d’autres termes, le pouvoir se présente toujours comme altruiste, désintéressé, généreux.

Quand la violence d’Etat ne suffit plus

Dans les années 1930, les règles de la propagande nazie consistaient, par exemple, à choisir des mots simples, à les répéter sans relâche, et à les associer à des émotions, des sentiments, des craintes. Quand Hitler a envahi les Sudètes [en 1938], ce fut en invoquant les objectifs les plus nobles et charitables, la nécessité d’une « intervention humanitaire » pour empêcher le « nettoyage ethnique » subi par les germanophones, et pour permettre que chacun puisse vivre sous l’« aile protectrice » de l’Allemagne, avec le soutien de la puissance la plus en avance du monde dans le domaine des arts et de la culture.

En matière de propagande, si d’une certaine manière rien n’a changé depuis Athènes, il y a quand même eu aussi nombre de perfectionnements. Les instruments se sont beaucoup affinés, en particulier et paradoxalement dans les pays les plus libres du monde : le Royaume-Uni et les Etats-Unis. C’est là, et pas ailleurs, que l’industrie moderne des relations publiques, autant dire la fabrique de l’opinion, ou la propagande, est née dans les années 1920.

Ces deux pays avaient en effet progressé en matière de droits démocratiques (vote des femmes, liberté d’expression, etc.) à tel point que l’aspiration à la liberté ne pouvait plus être contenue par la seule violence d’Etat. On s’est donc tourné vers les technologies de la « fabrique du consentement ». L’industrie des relations publiques produit, au sens propre du terme, du consentement, de l’acceptation, de la soumission. Elle contrôle les idées, les pensées, les esprits. Par rapport au totalitarisme, c’est un grand progrès : il est beaucoup plus agréable de subir une publicité que de se retrouver dans une salle de torture.

Aux Etats-Unis, la liberté d’expression est protégée à un degré que je crois inconnu dans tout autre pays du monde. C’est assez récent. Dans les années 1960, la Cour suprême a placé la barre très haut en matière de respect de la liberté de parole, ce qui exprimait, à mon avis, un principe fondamental établi dès le XVIIIe siècle par les valeurs des Lumières. La position de la Cour fut que la parole était libre, avec pour seule limite la participation à un acte criminel. Si, par exemple, quand je rentre dans un magasin pour le dévaliser, un de mes complices tient une arme et que je lui dis : « Tire ! », ce propos n’est pas protégé par la Constitution. Pour le reste, le motif doit être particulièrement grave avant que la liberté d’expression soit mise en cause. La Cour suprême a même réaffirmé ce principe en faveur de membres du Ku Klux Klan.

En France, au Royaume-Uni et, me semble-t-il, dans le reste de l’Europe, la liberté d’expression est définie de manière très restrictive. A mes yeux, la question essentielle est : l’Etat a-t-il le droit de déterminer ce qu’est la vérité historique, et celui de punir qui s’en écarte ? Le penser revient à s’accommoder d’une pratique proprement stalinienne.

Des intellectuels français ont du mal à admettre que c’est bien là leur inclination. Pourtant, le refus d’une telle approche ne doit pas souffrir d’exception. L’Etat ne devrait avoir aucun moyen de punir quiconque prétendrait que le Soleil tourne autour de la Terre. Le principe de la liberté d’expression a quelque chose de très élémentaire : ou on le défend dans le cas d’opinions qu’on déteste, ou on ne le défend pas du tout. Même Hitler et Staline admettaient la liberté d’expression de ceux qui partagaient leur point de vue...

J’ajoute qu’il y a quelque chose d’affligeant et même de scandaleux à devoir débattre de ces questions deux siècles après Voltaire, qui, comme on le sait, déclarait : « Je défendrai mes opinions jusqu’à ma mort, mais je donnerai ma vie pour que vous puissiez défendre les vôtres. » Et c’est rendre un bien triste service à la mémoire des victimes de l’Holocauste que d’adopter une des doctrines fondamentales de leurs bourreaux.

Dans un de vos livres, vous commentez la phrase de Milton Friedman : « Faire des profits est l’essence même de la démocratie »...

A vrai dire, les deux choses sont tellement contraires qu’il n’y a même pas de commentaire possible... La finalité de la démocratie, c’est que les gens puissent décider de leur propre vie et des choix politiques qui les concernent. La réalisation de profits est une pathologie de nos sociétés, adossée à des structures particulières. Dans une société décente, éthique, ce souci du profit serait marginal. Prenez mon département universitaire [au Massachusetts Institute of Technology] : quelques scientifiques travaillent dur pour gagner beaucoup d’argent, mais on les considère un peu comme des marginaux, des gens perturbés, presque des cas pathologiques. L’esprit qui anime la communauté académique, c’est plutôt d’essayer de faire des découvertes, à la fois par intérêt intellectuel et pour le bien de tous.

Dans l’ouvrage qui vous est consacré aux éditions de L’Herne, Jean Ziegler écrit : « Il y a eu trois totalitarismes : le totalitarisme stalinien, nazi et maintenant c’est Tina (2). » Compareriez-vous ces trois totalitarismes ?

Je ne les mettrais pas sur le même plan. Se battre contre « Tina », c’est affronter une emprise intellectuelle qu’on ne peut pas assimiler aux camps de concentration ni au goulag. Et, de fait, la politique des Etats-Unis suscite une opposition massive à l’échelle de la planète. L’Argentine et le Venezuela ont jeté le Fonds monétaire international (FMI) dehors. Les Etats-Unis ont dû renoncer à ce qui était encore la norme il y a vingt ou trente ans : le coup d’Etat militaire en Amérique latine. Le programme économique néolibéral, qui a été imposé de force à toute l’Amérique latine dans les années 1980 et 1990, est aujourd’hui rejeté dans l’ensemble du continent. Et on retrouve cette même opposition contre la globalisation économique à l’échelle mondiale.

Le mouvement pour la justice, qui est sous les feux des projecteurs médiatiques lors de chaque Forum social mondial, travaille en réalité toute l’année. C’est un phénomène très nouveau dans l’histoire, qui marque peut-être le début d’une vraie Internationale. Or son principal cheval de bataille porte sur l’existence d’une solution de rechange. D’ailleurs, quel meilleur exemple de globalisation différente que le Forum social mondial ? Les médias hostiles appellent ceux qui s’opposent à la globalisation néolibérale les « antimondialistes », alors qu’ils se battent pour une autre mondialisation, la mondialisation des peuples.

On peut observer le contraste entre les uns et les autres, parce que, au même moment, a lieu, à Davos, le Forum économique mondial, qui travaille à l’intégration économique planétaire, mais dans le seul intérêt des financiers, des banques et des fonds de pension. Puissances qui contrôlent aussi les médias. C’est leur conception de l’intégration globale, mais au service des investisseurs. Les médias dominants considèrent que cette intégration est la seule qui mérite, en quelque sorte, l’appellation officielle de mondialisation.

Voilà un bel exemple du fonctionnement de la propagande idéologique dans les sociétés démocratiques. A ce point efficace que même des participants au Forum social mondial acceptent parfois le qualificatif malintentionné d’« antimondialistes ». A Porto Alegre, je suis intervenu dans le cadre du Forum, et j’ai participé à la Conférence mondiale des paysans. Ils représentent à eux seuls la majorité de la population de la planète...

On vous range dans la catégorie des anarchistes ou des socialistes libertaires. Dans la démocratie telle que vous la concevez, quelle serait la place de l’Etat ?

On vit dans ce monde, pas dans un univers imaginaire. Dans ce monde, il existe des institutions tyranniques, ce sont les grandes entreprises. C’est ce qu’il y a de plus proche des institutions totalitaires. Elles n’ont, pour ainsi dire, aucun compte à rendre au public, à la société ; elles agissent à la manière de prédateurs dont d’autres entreprises seraient les proies. Pour s’en défendre, les populations ne disposent que d’un seul instrument : l’Etat. Or ce n’est pas un bouclier très efficace, car il est, en général, étroitement lié aux prédateurs. A une différence, non négligeable, près : alors que, par exemple, General Electric n’a aucun compte à rendre, l’Etat doit parfois s’expliquer auprès de la population.

Quand la démocratie se sera élargie au point que les citoyens contrôleront les moyens de production et d’échange, qu’ils participeront au fonctionnement et à la direction du cadre général dans lequel ils vivent, alors l’Etat pourra disparaître petit à petit. Il sera remplacé par des associations volontaires situées sur les lieux de travail et là où les gens vivent.

Est-ce les soviets ?

C’étaient les soviets. Mais la première chose que Lénine et Trotski ont détruit, sitôt après la révolution d’Octobre, ce sont les soviets, les conseils ouvriers et toutes les institutions démocratiques. Lénine et Trotski ont été à cet égard les pires ennemis du socialisme au XXe siècle. En tant que marxistes orthodoxes, ils ont estimé qu’une société retardataire comme la Russie de leur époque ne pouvait pas passer directement au socialisme avant d’être précipitée de force dans l’industrialisation.

En 1989, au moment de l’effondrement du système communiste, j’ai pensé que cet effondrement représentait, paradoxalement, une victoire pour le socialisme. Car le socialisme tel que je le conçois implique, au minimum, je le répète, le contrôle démocratique de la production, des échanges et des autres dimensions de l’existence humaine.

Toutefois, les deux principaux systèmes de propagande se sont accordés pour dire que le système tyrannique institué par Lénine et Trotski, puis transformé en monstruosité politique par Staline, était le « socialisme ». Les dirigeants occidentaux ne pouvaient qu’être enchantés par cet usage absurde et scandaleux du terme, qui leur a permis pendant des décennies de diffamer le socialisme authentique.

Avec un enthousiasme identique, mais de sens contraire, le système de propagande soviétique a tenté d’exploiter à son profit la sympathie et l’engagement que suscitaient pour beaucoup de travailleurs les idéaux socialistes authentiques.

N’est-il pas vrai que toutes les formes d’auto-organisation selon les principes anarchistes se sont finalement effondrées ?

Il n’y a pas de « principes anarchistes » fixes, une sorte de catéchisme libertaire auquel il faudrait prêter allégeance. L’anarchisme, du moins tel que je le comprends, est un mouvement de la pensée et de l’action humaines qui cherche à identifier les structures d’autorité et de domination, à leur demander de se justifier et, dès qu’elles en sont incapables, ce qui arrive fréquemment, à tenter de les dépasser.

Loin de s’être « effondré », l’anarchisme, la pensée libertaire, se porte très bien. Il est à la source de nombreux progrès réels. Des formes d’oppression et d’injustice qui étaient à peine reconnues, et encore moins combattues, ne sont plus admises. C’est une réussite, une avancée pour l’ensemble du genre humain, pas un échec.

(Propos recueillis par Daniel Mermet, revus et corrigés par l’auteur.)

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1. Le
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21:04, par gmBobljq

Agréable soir à toutes et tous ,

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Je proviens de Owen sound, canada . J'ai 33 années et j'éduque trois agréables enfants qui sont tous âgés entre neuf ou 14 années (1 est adoptée ). J'aime beaucoup les animaux domestiques et j'essaie de leur garantir les produits qui leur rendent la vie plus splendide.

Merci dors et déjà pour toutes les superbes délibérations qui viendront et je vous remercie de votre compréhension pour mon français moins que parfait: ma langue de naissance est l'anglais et je fais de mon mieux de m'enseigner mais c'est très complexe !

Bye

Arthru

2. Le
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21:11, par Guiswon

Bonjour à toutes et tous ,

Pour commencer , offrez-moi la possibilité de vous montrer mon appréciation pour chacune des très pertinentes infos que j'ai découvertes sur cet excellent site web .

Je ne suis pas convaincue d'être au bon section mais je n'en ai pas trouvé de meilleur.

Je proviens de Plumas, États-Unis. J'ai 40 années et j'ai cinq agréables enfants qui sont tous âgés entre 11 et 11 ans (1 est adopté). J'adore beaucoup les animaux de compagnie et je fais de mon mieux de leur donner les accessoires qui leur rendent la vie plus heureuse .

Je vous remercie dès maintenant pour toutes les super débats dans le futur et je vous remercie surtout de votre compréhension pour mon français moins que parfait: ma langue maternelle est l'anglais et j'essaie d'éviter les erreurs mais c'est très complexe !

Arrividerchi

Arthru

3. Le
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14:15, par Antcmng

Superbe matinée à chacun des membres de cette assemblée ,

Premièrement, donnez-moi la chance de vous montrer mon appréciation pour chacune des super infos que j'ai retrouvées sur cet imposant site web .

Je ne suis pas certaine d'être au meilleur section mais je n'en ai pas trouvé de meilleure .

J'habite à Sioux lookout, États-Unis. J'ai 45 ans et j'ai 2 très gentils enfants qui sont tous âgés entre 6 ou 16 années (1 est adoptée ). J'aime particulièrement beaucoup les animaux et j'essaie de leur garantir les items qui leur rendent la vie plus à l'aise .

Je vous remercie d'avance pour toutes les superbes délibérations à venir et je vous remercie surtout de votre compassion pour mon français moins qu'idéal : ma langue de naissance est le vietnamien et je fais de mon mieux d'apprendre mais c'est très compliqué !

A une autre fois

Arthru

4. Le
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lundi 20 juin 2011 à
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04:52, par Anttbez

Salutations à toutes et tous ,

Premièrement, offrez-moi la possibilité de vous démontrer ma gratitude pour chacune des très pertinentes infos que j'ai retrouvées sur cet impressionnant forum.

Je ne suis pas assuree d'être au meilleur endroit mais je n'en ai pas vu de meilleur.

Je vis à Lancaster, us . J'ai 27 ans et j'ai deux très gentils enfants qui sont tous âgés entre 6 et 15 années (1 est adopté). J'aime beaucoup les animaux et je tempte de leur offrir les accessoires qui leur rendent la vie plus agréable.

Merci d'avance pour toutes les très intéressantes discussions qui viendront et je vous remercie de votre compassion pour mon français moins qu'idéal : ma langue de naissance est le mandarin et j'essaie de m'enseigner mais c'est très complexe !

Bye

Arthru

5. Le
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mercredi 9 mai 2012 à
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samedi 15 septembre 2012 à
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samedi 15 septembre 2012 à
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lundi 17 septembre 2012 à
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mardi 18 septembre 2012 à
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vendredi 21 septembre 2012 à
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jeudi 1 novembre 2012 à
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jeudi 1 novembre 2012 à
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samedi 10 novembre 2012 à
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samedi 10 novembre 2012 à
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dimanche 11 novembre 2012 à
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dimanche 11 novembre 2012 à
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lundi 12 novembre 2012 à
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mardi 13 novembre 2012 à
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mardi 13 novembre 2012 à
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mercredi 14 novembre 2012 à
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08:10, par New orleans saints

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mercredi 14 novembre 2012 à
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mercredi 14 novembre 2012 à
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Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

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Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::str() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/ecrire/tools/multicat/functions.php on line 539

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::str() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/ecrire/tools/multicat/functions.php on line 539

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::str() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/ecrire/tools/multicat/functions.php on line 539

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::str() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/ecrire/tools/multicat/functions.php on line 539

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::str() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/ecrire/tools/multicat/functions.php on line 539

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Calendrier


Deprecated: Non-static method util::getNextPrev() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/layout/class.xblog.php on line 110

Deprecated: Non-static method dt::str() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/layout/class.xblog.php on line 116

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Deprecated: Non-static method util::getNextPrev() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/layout/class.xblog.php on line 119

Deprecated: Non-static method dt::str() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/layout/class.xblog.php on line 125

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Deprecated: Non-static method dt::str() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/layout/class.xblog.php on line 131

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Deprecated: Non-static method dt::str() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/layout/class.xblog.php on line 138

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Deprecated: Non-static method dt::str() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/layout/class.xblog.php on line 139

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Deprecated: Non-static method dt::str() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/layout/class.xblog.php on line 138

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Deprecated: Non-static method dt::str() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/layout/class.xblog.php on line 139

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Deprecated: Non-static method dt::str() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/layout/class.xblog.php on line 138

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Deprecated: Non-static method dt::str() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/layout/class.xblog.php on line 139

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Deprecated: Non-static method dt::str() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/layout/class.xblog.php on line 138

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Deprecated: Non-static method dt::str() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/layout/class.xblog.php on line 139

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Deprecated: Non-static method dt::str() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/layout/class.xblog.php on line 138

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Deprecated: Non-static method dt::str() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/layout/class.xblog.php on line 139

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Deprecated: Non-static method dt::str() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/layout/class.xblog.php on line 138

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Deprecated: Non-static method dt::str() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/layout/class.xblog.php on line 139

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Deprecated: Non-static method dt::str() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/layout/class.xblog.php on line 138

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Deprecated: Non-static method dt::str() should not be called statically, assuming $this from incompatible context in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/layout/class.xblog.php on line 139

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35

Strict Standards: Non-static method dt::_callback() should not be called statically in /home/gillesbe/www/ramassi/dotclear/inc/libs/lib.date.php on line 35
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